[集思广益]：如何为了孩子安全跟MCST打交道安装窗花护栏看到这么多有人有同样的问题，特意开一个贴收集有用信息，集思广益。[妈妈宝宝 (8-23 10:47, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]1楼
法律依据请跟这楼[妈妈宝宝 (8-23 10:55, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]2楼
(引用 妈妈宝宝:法律依据请跟这楼)BCA的2015 的circularParagraph 5(3) of the prescribed by-laws under the Second Schedule to the Building Maintenance (Strata Management) Regulations 2005 states that a subsidiary proprietor (SP) or occupier of a lot shall not be prevented from installing any structure or device to prevent harm to children (an extract is appended in the Annex). Such structures/devices include safety grilles at windows and balconies.
5 There may be situations where the MC has not set design guidelines for safety grilles, or is unable to pass the design guidelines by-law through a general meeting. In such situations, the MC will have to decide on the approval of the installation of such structure/devices on a case-by-case basis. If there are no prevailing design guidelines, the MC should consider the SP's proposed design to see if it can be adopted by all other SPs wanting to install safety grilles to ensure uniformity in appearance with the rest of the building in the development.[妈妈宝宝 (8-23 10:56, Long long ago)]
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官司打赢案例[妈妈宝宝 (8-23 10:56, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]4楼
(引用 妈妈宝宝:官司打赢案例)from 菠罗包 http://bbs.huasing.org/sForum/bbs.php?B=172_13668788http://news.asiaone.com/news/singapore/family-wins-case-install-grille-condo-balcony-childs-safety
Family wins case to install grille in condo balcony for child's safety
Board has ruled in favour of a family who were twice refused permission to install a grille in the balcony of their 13th-level condominium unit after seeing their four-year-old daughter try to climb over it.
It held that the management corporation of 7 One North Residences (ONR) in Buona Vista was wrong in refusing permission to a family to install grilles above the glass wall of their 13th-level balcony.
In judgment grounds of the test case, released this week, it said: "The children's safety must be paramount, even if the grilles may affect the appearance of the building or if they constitute an alteration on common property and therefore are prohibited under ONR's by-laws."
Dr Sujit Singh Gill's application was turned down twice by the ONR's management corporation (MC), which claimed it would affect the building's unique and uniform appearance.
The MC suggested instead that grilles be placed at the edge of the living room to prevent child access to the balcony. Dr Singh applied to the board last July to overrule the MC.
At issue was the rationality of the MC's decision and whether it could bar the installation based on the relevant building regulations. The MC's lawyers, Mr Subramaniam Pillai and Ms Venetia Tan, argued that the grilles did not keep up the building's appearance as provided under ONR's by-laws and would obstruct maintenance of the glass wall, among other things.
Lawyers Toh Kok Seng and Daniel Chen for Dr Singh countered that the relevant ONR by-laws took effect only last July and Dr Singh could not have been aware of them as he had bought the unit in 2010. They argued that the ONR by-laws had to be consistent with the prescribed 2005 Building Maintenance (Strata Management) Regulations, which allow owners to install safety structures or devices to prevent harm to children - even if they affect the building's appearance under certain circumstances.
The board comprising Mr Alfonso Ang, Mr Chua Koon Hoe and Mr Lim Gnee Kiang found that the MC had been "unreasonably difficult" with Dr Singh's request and had ignored the concerns for children's safety, as provided for under the 2005 regulations. It added that the grilles would have minimal impact on the building's appearance.
The board made clear that children's safety must be the overriding concern and the MC should support other such applications.
It called for the MC to provide guidelines for the installation of such safety devices to ensure they keep to the rest of the appearances of the building.
"Having grilles is not an attempt to abdicate parental responsibility. Instead, it serves as a safety precaution from leaning or climbing over the balcony glass wall. After all, it only takes a split second for the child to climb and fall over the glass, especially since it is only waist-high and easy to climb over," said the board.
Law firm Lee & Lee said on its case update website that "this is the first case in which the prescribed by-law of the Building Maintenance (Strata Management) Regulations 2005 has been considered in depth and will undoubtedly be of consequence to most, if not all, management corporations in Singapore".
[妈妈宝宝 (8-23 10:58, Long long ago)]
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实际应对操作[妈妈宝宝 (8-23 10:58, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]6楼
(引用 妈妈宝宝:实际应对操作)from haidaoyu http://bbs.huasing.org/sForum/bbs.php?B=172_136688271.以前住一楼，没有安装这个的问题，可是阳台没有封顶，楼上什么东西都可能丢下来，甚至有整扇窗户掉下来的（不是我家，另一个一楼住户），所有一楼的住户联合提出从安全考虑要物业同意一楼住户自费统一封自家的阳台顶部，可是回复就是不行，每年业主大会也达不到70%投票率。（几百户才十几户一楼，大部分都事不关己 高高挂起）哎！
2. 换新房子吸取经验，只要是bca允许的，才不管你外观不外观，先斩后奏。加上邻居们自己安装不符合的也很多，收到警告信要拆除，就和他们扯皮，别人那么多都安了，凭什么我们不可以，bca都允许了，为什么不能安。来来回回几次，物业manager都换了几个了，好像就不了了之了。住了2年了没人再来烦了。[妈妈宝宝 (8-23 10:59, Long long ago)]
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(引用 妈妈宝宝:实际应对操作)方法：加 公寓whatsapp 群投诉集合同道合者一起提议施压。[妈妈宝宝 (8-23 11:03, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]8楼
(引用 妈妈宝宝:实际应对操作)方法：加入MSCT。我跟MANAGER说过我要加入MCST。她回复：The election of council member is to be decided during a general meeting. 所以去开会，并且作好准备。[妈妈宝宝 (8-23 11:06, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]9楼
(引用 妈妈宝宝:官司打赢案例)希望啊。http://bbs.huasing.org/sForum/bbs.php?B=172_13668827[妈妈宝宝 (8-23 11:08, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]10楼
(引用 妈妈宝宝:实际应对操作)实际动议通过案例去年底我们的居民大会，新任部长徐芳达的太太也提出动议要求改装阳台门，因为她家住的很高，普通的门窗无法抵挡大风大雨。她也向大家展示了BCA的意见，最后居民投票通过了她的动议。
http://bbs.huasing.org/sForum/bbs.php?B=172_13668544[妈妈宝宝 (8-23 11:10, Long long ago)]
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(引用 妈妈宝宝:方法：加入MSCT。我跟MANAGER说过我要加入MCST。她回复：The election of council member is to be decided during a general meeting. �...)拉上华新所有买了同一个公寓的一起在AGM上推翻现在的管理层，然后从新制定制度，大到窗花，小到使用网球场要不要交钱。 [本文发送自华新iOS APP] [滚雪球 (8-23 11:18, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]12楼
(引用 妈妈宝宝:官司打赢案例)Grille expectations at condoshttp://business.asiaone.com/news/grille-expectations-condos
Grille expectations at condos
Yeo Sam JoThe Straits TimesTuesday, Feb 03, 2015
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The Building and Construction Authority (BCA) will send a notice to management corporations (MCs) reminding them that home owners should not be stopped from installing grilles to prevent harm to children.
This was revealed in a letter sent to The Sunday Times, in response to several readers writing in to complain about their grille woes.
But residents still have to first get approval from their MCs on the design of the grille.
And this could lead to rejections, hassle and unwanted delays, several condo owners said, calling for a faster and easier process.
One solution, said Mr Chan Kok Hong, president of the Association of Strata Managers, could be to make all developers and architects come up with grille designs from the get-go.
"Once imposed by them, there won't be issues with how the grilles affect the look of the building."
The problem that some residents face was highlighted when Dr Sujit Singh Gill was forced to turn to the Strata Titles Boards (STB) after the MC of One North Residences (ONR) twice rejected his grille plans.
Last month, the STB ruled he had every right to install the grilles at his 13th-floor unit to protect his two young children if they climb the waist-high balcony glass wall.
In the wake of the ruling, the condo's MC wrote to The Straits Times Forum Page to say it had already suggested other safety measures, like installing grilles inside the sliding balcony doors. There was also a "sunken concrete box area" in front of the balcony wall which cannot be easily crossed.
When asked if these were enough to guarantee a child's safety, a spokesman for the MC told The Sunday Times: "Parental supervision is important as well."
She added that the MC did not consider external balcony grille designs because they would mar the facade's look and obstruct maintenance.
"The entire design, facade and structure of ONR is intended to project an open and fenceless ambience... Many owners view ONR as a unique development."
Dr Singh told The Sunday Times that installing the grilles inside was a "completely unsatisfactory" solution, as his family would not be able to use the balcony.
He added that the planter box ran along only one side of his balcony, and that the balcony's glass barriers rest on a ledge which a child can still stand on.
In the past two years, the BCA received feedback on nine cases in which developers or MCs rejected requests by unit owners to install grilles for their windows or balconies. In that time, the STB heard one case - Dr Singh's.
Some residents do not want to take the risk of waiting.
Housewife Estella Young, 36, was told by Park East Condominium's management two years ago that she could not install external balcony grilles.
"It's quite nerve-racking for parents," said Ms Young, whose son, now three, had just started to walk then.
She settled for grilles on the inside of her balcony doors instead.
Sales automation director Christina Teng, 45, also ran into obstacles at The Esta at Amber Gardens, where she lives.
She installed invisible grilles at her 19th-floor balcony last September after receiving approval from the condo's managing agent.
But after another agent took over in November, she was told that her grilles were not sanctioned.
It was finally decided at the condo's annual general meeting yesterday that Ms Teng could keep her grilles, and other residents now have to follow a similar design.
But the mother of a 16-month-old son said: "I invested a lot of my time, effort and money into this. It's frustrating.
"I only have a simple request - to make my living space safer."
BCA letter
We refer to the articles and letters on the installation of safety grilles for condominium windows and balconies that were published in The Straits Times.
Under the prescribed by-law of the Building Maintenance (Strata Management) Regulations 2005, a Subsidiary Proprietor (SP) or owner of an individual unit shall not be prevented from installing any locking or other safety device/structure to improve safety within that unit, or any safety features to prevent harm to children. This includes the installation of safety grilles at the balcony.
To address residents' safety concerns and ensure uniformity in the appearance of safety devices or structures with the rest of the building, the Management Corporation Strata Title (MCST) should set design guidelines for the installation of such features.
These design guidelines should then be passed as a by-law at a general meeting so as to bind the MCST and all SPs/tenants. All SPs/tenants must ensure that such installations are consistent with the design guidelines by-law.
The Building and Construction Authority (BCA) issued a circular "Installation of Additional Safety Barrier/Grille at Balcony of a Lot" in 2013 to all MCSTs to remind them of (1) the above prescribed by-law that the owner of an individual unit shall not be prevented from installing any device/structure that prevents harm to children and (2) the need to set the design guidelines for such devices/structures for their development to address the issue of uniformity of appearance of such structures with the rest of the building.
To further heighten awareness about this, we will send another circular to all MCSTs and continue to raise this issue to the MCSTs whom we meet periodically through our dialogues.
Chin Chi Leong
Commissioner of Buildings
Group Director, Building Plan and Management Building and Construction Authority
This article was first published on February 1, 2015.
Get a copy of The Straits Times or go to straitstimes.com for more stories.
- See more at: http://business.asiaone.com/news/grille-expectations-condos#sthash.1gbT4GZ2.dpuf[妈妈宝宝 (8-23 12:35, Long long ago)]
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建议参看BCA的2013和2015的Circular在BCA的网站很容易就搜索到了。
我之前没有看到这两个Circular,所以立场不够坚定，如果各位有同样的问题，建议可以利用这两个circular与MCST的人周旋。
另外URA那边，确定是肯定没有意见的，但MCST的直接属BCA的管辖范围，所以建议直接找BCA。
[jjoan1 (8-24 9:57, Long long ago)]
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(引用 jjoan1:建议参看BCA的2013和2015的Circular在BCA的网站很容易就搜索到了。
我之前没有看到这两个Circular,所以立场不够坚定，如果各位有同样的问...)BCA肯定是允许装invisible grill的我认识的住公寓高楼有小孩的都有装，我不明白为什么MCST可以有权力规定你在房子里面做什么，我一直以为这个只归BCA管。
问题是如果MCST一直恶心你，也是一个很麻烦的事情。毕竟大家住房子都求个顺心，哪有精力整天和MCST吵架啊，它后面毕竟有整个居民的钱在支持运作。我觉得唯一的方法是自己做MCST的主席，然后不断的写信给媒体和社区领袖，层主已经做了自己能做的所有事情了。
[本文发送自华新iOS APP]
[滚雪球 (8-24 10:06, Long long ago)]
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是所有公寓还是个别？问了几个同事都说可以装啊 [本文发送自华新iOS APP] [hudasm (8-24 10:10, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]16楼
(引用 滚雪球:BCA肯定是允许装invisible grill的我认识的住公寓高楼有小孩的都有装，我不明白为什么MCST可以有权力规定你在房子里面做什么，我一直以为...)房子里面装BCA也管不了,它只管结构会不会改变,管安全MCST也管不了,它只能以外观改变,提出干涉
私人房子里面是你的私有领地,除了你自己, 还有法律可以管了...[西东南北风 (8-24 10:21, Long long ago)]
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(引用 西东南北风:房子里面装BCA也管不了,它只管结构会不会改变,管安全MCST也管不了,它只能以外观改变,提出干涉
私人房子里面是你的私有领地,除了你自己, �...)其实,除了隐性窗花还有其他办法可以代替,人家也无法干涉, 如可收缩卷帘. 更好的是 可移动窗户--关上时是全封闭,打开时是全open(如这样的https://world.taobao.com/item/9053206253.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a21f2.7918495.1000002.89.h3EiVh)
BCA的条例最多是,不得进行永久结构的改变-基本会批准,很多项目用来增加可使用空间[西东南北风 (8-24 10:35, Long long ago)]
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(引用 西东南北风:其实,除了隐性窗花还有其他办法可以代替,人家也无法干涉, 如可收缩卷帘. 更好的是 可移动窗户--关上时是全封闭,打开时是全open(如这样的h...)这种真的可以吗？@DengWei @=_=||可以的话就不会那么多人装invisible grille了吧 [本文发送自华新iOS APP] [武汉伢 (8-24 11:07, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]19楼
(引用 武汉伢:这种真的可以吗？@DengWei @=_=||可以的话就不会那么多人装invisible grille了吧)咦，是单眼皮… @-_-||话说上面那种很常见，比grille美观实用，我记得有人明确说过不让装 [本文发送自华新iOS APP] [武汉伢 (8-24 11:10, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]20楼