10月21-25日新加坡举办第15届亚洲象棋锦标赛汇总贴
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作者:碧山 (等级:3 - 略知一二,发帖:1430) 发表:2008-11-03 14:28:26  101楼 评分:
个人觉得peanut年輕突真言,所说的是事实!!!我周边的棋友,都批评国家队的代表除了吴宗翰之外,实力只是一般,不是最佳的人选。但在华新,所看的,则是另外一面的看法。我不知道这些看法,是从什么角度出发的? 个人只是知道,看一个问题,有几种不同角度的看法,见仁见智: 1)国家的角度:象总这几年究竟做了些什么工作,为什么没有培养出一些优秀的棋手? 2)团体的角度:派出全国赛前4名的代表,为什么还不能争取到理想的成绩,是不是其他国家的水平明显的比我们高?还是遴选的制度出了差错? 3)个别棋手的角度:虽然明知自己的实力不行,难得有机会代表国家,那里可以轻言放弃,失去一个锻炼个人棋艺的机会? 4)朋友的角度:即使明知道自己的朋友棋艺还不行,基于友情,那里敢开口说他不行,开口说了可能连朋友都没得做。 5)赞助商的角度:赞助一个无法为国家争取荣誉的团体,一点好处都没有,倒不如去赞助一个能够为赞助商带来荣誉的团体。 6)旁观者的角度:就有如peanut所说,新加坡的象棋水平给他的印象,只是亚洲的弱旅!!!
suggest to pay attention to 国家 and 团体的角度 only .......

and what is the action plan for the next 2 years (at least), before 2010 第16届亚洲象棋锦标赛 in East Malaysia. (quite a number of previous posts discussed about setting directions for the selection and training of players at National Level if we could not use 全国赛 only.)


个别棋手, 朋友, 赞助商 and 旁观者的角度 should not affect the main direction.
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作者:xiaobeidou (等级:5 - 略有小成,发帖:321) 发表:2008-11-03 14:52:15  102楼 评分:
棋艺水平有待加强,但国家棋手代表的棋品形象更为重要....................你作为我国国家棋手代表,对外的形象很重要。在赛场比赛进行中,你不是时常走来走去看棋,“如果看的是自己国家队员的棋还情有可言,但还去看别个国家队员的棋..." ( 套裁判王兴南的话 )。我有向裁判王兴南询问过,亚象联竞赛规则中不是有一条说是棋手随意走动看棋也算犯规,早就应判输棋了,对中国队你又没下场,那有资格侯选为特级大师呢?我曾问他为何不从严发落,王裁判说坏就坏在还是我国国家代表,要严格处理,很多棋手都犯规的。我国国家年青棋手也有样学样,也时常走动看棋,自己的棋都下得不怎么好,还要看别人下棋? 在欢送宴上,坐在我身旁的柬埔寨领队就说了使我感慨万千的话:“我们有很多强棋手,但我只派出那些棋品较好的棋手,国家形象更为重要......." 这次亚洲赛,我国国家队已尽了全力作战,虽败犹嘉,自个儿棋艺水平有待加强,别人的水平可能更有大进步,作了全面检讨后,准备来年再战。
i nvr said i was the best player
(i'm at work i can't type chinese)
Top priority for Singapore team is to get good results for the team itself and not for me to get my grandmaster title. it is also my top priority therefore this time to strategist the team well and in a different manner. I take red for certain teams to try to secure the 2 points first for the whole team. This strategy worked for nearly all teams, except Australia. For macau there was miscommunication as i thought zhuyongji was at home. If everything would have gone smoothly as planned, we would have gotten 5th which meant tht our strategy was not tht bad. Against China team i did not play has a few reasons one is to let ruizhan play more, 2 is to secure a winning percentage on my part.(This was the second priority for team singapore told to me by one of leaders.) I'm not obligated to waste my time and effort to explain to you even though i didn't play China. It is your right to have the freedom of speech, and my rights to decide how i should strategist the team to play well in this asia's cup. As u are not the person that has a say in deciding who gets to play for Singapore (anthony) you do not know the teams situation and ability better than him or any of us, so your suggestions would not be taken into consideration. Moreover it's over.

According to wangxinnan, it is not stated in the rules book. "It might be stated in future" but not yet. To me walking around has nohing wrong espcially to relax one's mind from the chess board given tense situations and pressure it helps relax my mind to look at other people's games so that we know what they move in the next few games. Are you saying that xiejing, sunyongzhen should also be "判输" when they look at my games espiecially xiejing which i'm closer to keep coming to view my games. If this rule is changed what about rules in china that play chess professionally? Obviously singapore's rules are flawed, i was asked to sit down and not be able to view my own team's games when i was at yishun taking part in one of their team events there. even my team mate was given a warning as he wanted to view our own teammates games. If it's a team event, players should be given the freedom to view their teammates own games to decide how to play their games as well as their opponents games. so that they know what openings their opponents move. I have ever witness a live china A division league competition and quite a number of players walk around so all should be "判输"? This includes lvqin and xuyinchuan. This time round i didn't see xuyinchuan view games very much though probably because he knows his chess is higher than everyone else.

I get your point. However from my view being a team event, i don't think i did anything wrong so your views would not be taken into my consideration unless it's embedded in the rules. viewing the games mostly of my team and taking afew glimpses of other teams games is perfectly fine to me as professionals in china no one gets a foul for viewing games. so why should there be an absurd rule that we get a foul for viewing our people's games since we're not even professionals. I believe that as long as i do not disturb my opponent(and yes unless my opponent states that me moving around affects him) it's ethically okie. Getting Grandmaster to me is a big thing. However i place my priority results of the Singapore team first. (Like me playing against china would make a difference to the whole team considering that all lost)
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作者:一刀n断 (等级:20 - 华新元老,发帖:9771) 发表:2008-11-03 15:39:53  103楼 评分:
棋艺水平有待加强,但国家棋手代表的棋品形象更为重要....................你作为我国国家棋手代表,对外的形象很重要。在赛场比赛进行中,你不是时常走来走去看棋,“如果看的是自己国家队员的棋还情有可言,但还去看别个国家队员的棋..." ( 套裁判王兴南的话 )。我有向裁判王兴南询问过,亚象联竞赛规则中不是有一条说是棋手随意走动看棋也算犯规,早就应判输棋了,对中国队你又没下场,那有资格侯选为特级大师呢?我曾问他为何不从严发落,王裁判说坏就坏在还是我国国家代表,要严格处理,很多棋手都犯规的。我国国家年青棋手也有样学样,也时常走动看棋,自己的棋都下得不怎么好,还要看别人下棋? 在欢送宴上,坐在我身旁的柬埔寨领队就说了使我感慨万千的话:“我们有很多强棋手,但我只派出那些棋品较好的棋手,国家形象更为重要......." 这次亚洲赛,我国国家队已尽了全力作战,虽败犹嘉,自个儿棋艺水平有待加强,别人的水平可能更有大进步,作了全面检讨后,准备来年再战。
我觉得吴宗翰不出战中国 稳保晋升特级大师也没什么不对的地方
毕竟吴宗翰是新加坡的代表 可能说到新加坡象棋 最近几年 从外国人的角度来说 大多数人首先想到的就是黄俊铭和吴宗翰了吧 新加坡拥有更多的特级大师也足以证明新加坡象棋水平的提升

当然如果新加坡能取得更好的名次也可以更直接的证明新加坡象棋水平的进步 但是客观说 大家心中都有数 即使吴宗翰那场对中国上场的话 又有多少几率可以赢呢? 赢了的话2比4和0比6又有多大区别呢? 能实际改变新加坡的最后名次吗? 莫不如雪藏自己 保存实力 给其他队友更多锻炼的机会

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作者:碧山 (等级:3 - 略知一二,发帖:1430) 发表:2008-11-03 16:27:30  104楼 评分:
i nvr said i was the best player(i'm at work i can't type chinese) Top priority for Singapore team is to get good results for the team itself and not for me to get my grandmaster title. it is also my top priority therefore this time to strategist the team well and in a different manner. I take red for certain teams to try to secure the 2 points first for the whole team. This strategy worked for nearly all teams, except Australia. For macau there was miscommunication as i thought zhuyongji was at home. If everything would have gone smoothly as planned, we would have gotten 5th which meant tht our strategy was not tht bad. Against China team i did not play has a few reasons one is to let ruizhan play more, 2 is to secure a winning percentage on my part.(This was the second priority for team singapore told to me by one of leaders.) I'm not obligated to waste my time and effort to explain to you even though i didn't play China. It is your right to have the freedom of speech, and my rights to decide how i should s (more...)
why China needs to follow Asian Xiangqi rules when playing in .....
International events ?

I may not agree with all the views from 棋儒, same for you too.

Of course, we are not in the positions to talk about the skill upgrade areas etc but 国家棋手代表的棋品形象 is our concerns, personally, I also feel that you still have a lot to learn in these areas, especially, you will be the example for young players with your new title of 特级大师.

We should not compare with the local events and conclude that we are not "right" because China xiangqi professionals are not doing it.

Do you know, in 2005 Lion City Cup, a few China players were asked not to move around in the competition area.

Organisers should know their priorities better.
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作者:xiaobeidou (等级:5 - 略有小成,发帖:321) 发表:2008-11-03 16:55:55  105楼
why China needs to follow Asian Xiangqi rules when playing in .....International events ? I may not agree with all the views from 棋儒, same for you too. Of course, we are not in the positions to talk about the skill upgrade areas etc but 国家棋手代表的棋品形象 is our concerns, personally, I also feel that you still have a lot to learn in these areas, especially, you will be the example for young players with your new title of 特级大师. We should not compare with the local events and conclude that we are not "right" because China xiangqi professionals are not doing it. Do you know, in 2005 Lion City Cup, a few China players were asked not to move around in the competition area. Organisers should know their priorities better.
i agree that there is a need to constantly upgrade in that area espiecially....
since i have upgraded my rank. However from my view i do not understand why we are not able to even view our teammates games during team events. China players were asked to sit down because they are in Singapore. It's a Singaporean Rule not an international rule. We should be given the right to view other people's games in order to decide how to continue playing. Whether to take a more defensive or offensive approach. Than to me it would be considered more like a team event.
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作者:peanut (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:197) 发表:2008-11-03 16:56:56  106楼
个人觉得peanut年輕突真言,所说的是事实!!!我周边的棋友,都批评国家队的代表除了吴宗翰之外,实力只是一般,不是最佳的人选。但在华新,所看的,则是另外一面的看法。我不知道这些看法,是从什么角度出发的? 个人只是知道,看一个问题,有几种不同角度的看法,见仁见智: 1)国家的角度:象总这几年究竟做了些什么工作,为什么没有培养出一些优秀的棋手? 2)团体的角度:派出全国赛前4名的代表,为什么还不能争取到理想的成绩,是不是其他国家的水平明显的比我们高?还是遴选的制度出了差错? 3)个别棋手的角度:虽然明知自己的实力不行,难得有机会代表国家,那里可以轻言放弃,失去一个锻炼个人棋艺的机会? 4)朋友的角度:即使明知道自己的朋友棋艺还不行,基于友情,那里敢开口说他不行,开口说了可能连朋友都没得做。 5)赞助商的角度:赞助一个无法为国家争取荣誉的团体,一点好处都没有,倒不如去赞助一个能够为赞助商带来荣誉的团体。 6)旁观者的角度:就有如peanut所说,新加坡的象棋水平给他的印象,只是亚洲的弱旅!!!
谢谢老师,希望来年新加坡进六强!
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作者:peanut (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:197) 发表:2008-11-03 17:02:20  107楼
未必peanut 请问你有在现场吗? 有了解赛场?比赛下完了你是在怪谁呢?假如你认为你棋高与我们以后你来下亚洲赛算了我不下给你下好吗? 你知道我们对台湾那盘假设黄荣岳赢了我们有第4或第5。那他那盘棋因为输了所以掉到第9 请你假如不了解情况不要再提过去的比赛扰乱比赛员的心情。
对不起,我没去看,只是说自己想法,但我支持新加坡进步。你们四位肯定比我强多了。
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作者:碧山 (等级:3 - 略知一二,发帖:1430) 发表:2008-11-03 17:05:16  108楼
why China needs to follow Asian Xiangqi rules when playing in .....International events ? I may not agree with all the views from 棋儒, same for you too. Of course, we are not in the positions to talk about the skill upgrade areas etc but 国家棋手代表的棋品形象 is our concerns, personally, I also feel that you still have a lot to learn in these areas, especially, you will be the example for young players with your new title of 特级大师. We should not compare with the local events and conclude that we are not "right" because China xiangqi professionals are not doing it. Do you know, in 2005 Lion City Cup, a few China players were asked not to move around in the competition area. Organisers should know their priorities better.
Regarding players walking around, anyone know about the practices in ........
the other 4 types of World Mind Sports ?

If only Xiangqi is doing it, then most likely China Xiangqi Professionals are doing wrongly for many many years.

the meanings of team event should cover many areas even if the players are not allowed to walk around.
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作者:peanut (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:197) 发表:2008-11-03 17:11:58  109楼
我也觉得peanut对国家队过于苛刻了
做为棋迷,我希望新加坡是劲旅。看到棋队下不好,心中不快,我的表达方式错了。
请原谅。
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作者:几度 (等级:12 - 登峰造极,发帖:3128) 发表:2008-11-03 18:48:22  110楼
对不起,我没去看,只是说自己想法,但我支持新加坡进步。你们四位肯定比我强多了。
不是强与弱的问题
各抒己见而已。论坛本来就是讨论的地方,没有谁强谁弱的问题。

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作者:多啦A梦 (等级:3 - 略知一二,发帖:164) 发表:2008-11-03 20:18:30  111楼 评分:
棋艺水平有待加强,但国家棋手代表的棋品形象更为重要....................你作为我国国家棋手代表,对外的形象很重要。在赛场比赛进行中,你不是时常走来走去看棋,“如果看的是自己国家队员的棋还情有可言,但还去看别个国家队员的棋..." ( 套裁判王兴南的话 )。我有向裁判王兴南询问过,亚象联竞赛规则中不是有一条说是棋手随意走动看棋也算犯规,早就应判输棋了,对中国队你又没下场,那有资格侯选为特级大师呢?我曾问他为何不从严发落,王裁判说坏就坏在还是我国国家代表,要严格处理,很多棋手都犯规的。我国国家年青棋手也有样学样,也时常走动看棋,自己的棋都下得不怎么好,还要看别人下棋? 在欢送宴上,坐在我身旁的柬埔寨领队就说了使我感慨万千的话:“我们有很多强棋手,但我只派出那些棋品较好的棋手,国家形象更为重要......." 这次亚洲赛,我国国家队已尽了全力作战,虽败犹嘉,自个儿棋艺水平有待加强,别人的水平可能更有大进步,作了全面检讨后,准备来年再战。
棋品真的是很重要,不过不是为了现给人看的,而是对自己内心的一个交待。
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作者:RB (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:18) 发表:2008-11-03 21:04:53  112楼 评分:
未必peanut 请问你有在现场吗? 有了解赛场?比赛下完了你是在怪谁呢?假如你认为你棋高与我们以后你来下亚洲赛算了我不下给你下好吗? 你知道我们对台湾那盘假设黄荣岳赢了我们有第4或第5。那他那盘棋因为输了所以掉到第9 请你假如不了解情况不要再提过去的比赛扰乱比赛员的心情。
有感而发
1.遴选制度:取全国赛前四的制度无可厚非,前提是要把目标搞清楚。如果目标是要取得短期内的最佳成绩,显而易见,此制度绝非是最完善的,因为最佳的棋手不一定会参加比赛,而且视临场表现而定,就算参加也未必会取得前四名。如果目标为此,不说其它,黄君就铁定应该在队内的。
但如果目标是长远些,为了激励棋手,尤其是年轻的棋手,勇于进取表现,从而促进棋坛的发展,取前四名的做法总的来说是比较有成效的。当然,除了比赛外,也要有其它的机制为辅。
如果是目标不明确或制度与目标不符,实在不应该说棋手该让贤的话。这有欠公平。而且,对一些棋手而言,这可能是一生一次的机会呀。要他们自动放弃太残忍一点了吧?
2.棋品:在团体赛时观看队友的局势是关心队友理所当然的表现。如果现下棋规没有列此违规,实在不应拿这为口实。当然,棋规可以也应该适时的做出改进,但那是后话了。
3.棋坛感言:感觉上这么多年来还是老问题,缺乏明确的大方向和相应的机制。偶有人才但都没适当地制栽培他们。可惜!
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作者:棋一生 (等级:15 - 最接近神,发帖:3182) 发表:2008-11-03 21:49:17  113楼
第4轮:中国澳门胜新加坡-5:1;中国香港负中国-2:4!!!中国澳门胜新加坡-5:1 第1台:中国澳门杜光伟胜新加坡吕瑞展 第2台:新加坡吴宗翰和中国澳门徐浩华 第3台:中国澳门李锦欢胜新加坡黄荣岳 中国香港负中国-2:4 第1台:中国香港陈振杰和中国谢靖 第2台:中国许银川胜中国香港周世杰 第3台:中国香港赵汝权和中国孙勇征 (more...)
改改正:新加坡0:6负中国澳门,吴宗翰超时负!!!
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作者:一刀n断 (等级:20 - 华新元老,发帖:9771) 发表:2008-11-03 22:05:23  114楼
有感而发1.遴选制度:取全国赛前四的制度无可厚非,前提是要把目标搞清楚。如果目标是要取得短期内的最佳成绩,显而易见,此制度绝非是最完善的,因为最佳的棋手不一定会参加比赛,而且视临场表现而定,就算参加也未必会取得前四名。如果目标为此,不说其它,黄君就铁定应该在队内的。 但如果目标是长远些,为了激励棋手,尤其是年轻的棋手,勇于进取表现,从而促进棋坛的发展,取前四名的做法总的来说是比较有成效的。当然,除了比赛外,也要有其它的机制为辅。 如果是目标不明确或制度与目标不符,实在不应该说棋手该让贤的话。这有欠公平。而且,对一些棋手而言,这可能是一生一次的机会呀。要他们自动放弃太残忍一点了吧? 2.棋品:在团体赛时观看队友的局势是关心队友理所当然的表现。如果现下棋规没有列此违规,实在不应拿这为口实。当然,棋规可以也应该适时的做出改进,但那是后话了。 3.棋坛感言:感觉上这么多年来还是老问题,缺乏明确的大方向和相应的机制。偶有人才但都没适当地制栽培他们。可惜!
欢迎新人 赠桃=)
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作者:一刀n断 (等级:20 - 华新元老,发帖:9771) 发表:2008-11-03 22:09:36  115楼
改改正:新加坡0:6负中国澳门,吴宗翰超时负!!!
我觉得这么说对吴宗翰有点残酷了
应该跟亚象联提出上诉 请澳门的选手出来作证是和棋还是吴超时负 虽然对吴宗翰升特大没有影响 但是也不能就这样把一盘和了半天的棋因为选手没有停钟就判负啊 当时的棋证都干嘛去了?除了四处逛街喝咖啡扯淡装B清人以外有没有干正经事?
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作者:棋一生 (等级:15 - 最接近神,发帖:3182) 发表:2008-11-03 22:11:27  116楼 评分:
i nvr said i was the best player(i'm at work i can't type chinese) Top priority for Singapore team is to get good results for the team itself and not for me to get my grandmaster title. it is also my top priority therefore this time to strategist the team well and in a different manner. I take red for certain teams to try to secure the 2 points first for the whole team. This strategy worked for nearly all teams, except Australia. For macau there was miscommunication as i thought zhuyongji was at home. If everything would have gone smoothly as planned, we would have gotten 5th which meant tht our strategy was not tht bad. Against China team i did not play has a few reasons one is to let ruizhan play more, 2 is to secure a winning percentage on my part.(This was the second priority for team singapore told to me by one of leaders.) I'm not obligated to waste my time and effort to explain to you even though i didn't play China. It is your right to have the freedom of speech, and my rights to decide how i should s (more...)
如果我的对手频频离座观看别人的棋局!!!
我会有以下几个想法:
1)我的对手很瞧不起我,没有把我放在眼里;
2)我的对手非常狂妄自大,自持棋艺非常高超,下棋不用思考;
3)他会让人怀疑我和他下假棋,看了其他选手的成绩之后,才来决定这盘棋的胜、和与负。
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作者:棋一生 (等级:15 - 最接近神,发帖:3182) 发表:2008-11-03 22:22:43  117楼
改改正:新加坡0:6负中国澳门,吴宗翰超时负!!!
我查证的结果!!!
1)对局记录有写明黒胜,双方都有签名;
2)隔了多天吴君都没有抗议。
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作者:棋儒 (等级:3 - 略知一二,发帖:108) 发表:2008-11-04 09:03:47  118楼
如果我的对手频频离座观看别人的棋局!!!我会有以下几个想法: 1)我的对手很瞧不起我,没有把我放在眼里; 2)我的对手非常狂妄自大,自持棋艺非常高超,下棋不用思考; 3)他会让人怀疑我和他下假棋,看了其他选手的成绩之后,才来决定这盘棋的胜、和与负。
谢谢您老兄帮我说话
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作者:xiaobeidou (等级:5 - 略有小成,发帖:321) 发表:2008-11-04 10:06:34  119楼 评分:
如果我的对手频频离座观看别人的棋局!!!我会有以下几个想法: 1)我的对手很瞧不起我,没有把我放在眼里; 2)我的对手非常狂妄自大,自持棋艺非常高超,下棋不用思考; 3)他会让人怀疑我和他下假棋,看了其他选手的成绩之后,才来决定这盘棋的胜、和与负。
different people have different views u have yours & i have mine i won't .....
disagree on yours but i won't also agree on what u think. For example, u mentioned to allow people that you think have a better ability than us to play for international competition. I totally disagree because i think that to give others a try they get a chance to improve and to gain more exposure. Sending the best player from my experience DOES NOT gurantee the better results.

Similarly to this case, i believe it helps me relax better under tense situations and get to strategise my situations better. Although i don't deny that my opponent might think like wise. I agree with what 多啦A梦 says, it is not for other people to view me as, it is what is inside me that shapes me. However from what Bishan has said, from their perspective as leaders of the chess association they are more concerned with 国家棋手代表的棋品形象 i can understand why. Being a Singapore representative i will give my word to constantly upgrade myself in areas that i lack. For people that are purposely trying to provoke or to create trouble with me, i suggest if u wanna do it, do it openly stop hiding behind your computer pls thank you.
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作者:棋儒 (等级:3 - 略知一二,发帖:108) 发表:2008-11-04 10:11:37  120楼 评分:
i nvr said i was the best player(i'm at work i can't type chinese) Top priority for Singapore team is to get good results for the team itself and not for me to get my grandmaster title. it is also my top priority therefore this time to strategist the team well and in a different manner. I take red for certain teams to try to secure the 2 points first for the whole team. This strategy worked for nearly all teams, except Australia. For macau there was miscommunication as i thought zhuyongji was at home. If everything would have gone smoothly as planned, we would have gotten 5th which meant tht our strategy was not tht bad. Against China team i did not play has a few reasons one is to let ruizhan play more, 2 is to secure a winning percentage on my part.(This was the second priority for team singapore told to me by one of leaders.) I'm not obligated to waste my time and effort to explain to you even though i didn't play China. It is your right to have the freedom of speech, and my rights to decide how i should s (more...)
亚象联的比赛规则确有说明棋手不得随意离席,只是理解的程度与诠释的方式有所不同....
亚象联的比赛规则(2003年11月出版)确有说明棋手不得随意离席,请看下文:
第二章比赛通则第九节犯规第一条款(第17页):
赛员如触犯以下条款,即为技术犯规:
一。" 对局时禁止随意离席或与任何人交谈............."
第一章行棋第三节对局规定第五条款(第10页):
五。技术犯规
每局棋赛,任何一方技术犯规两次则判负。

我个人的理解是棋手因紧急要去方便(上厕所 )才离席,离席观战算不算“随意离席”呢?
我记得象总以前在 EXPO hall 主办过的 Mind Sports Olympiad Games 棋赛中,国际特级大师胡荣华就这么说过:“你们(指新加坡)的棋手很喜欢离席,观看他人下棋”,你知道他指的是我国那些大牌棋手吗?棋一生也说道棋手频繁离席,是对对方的不尊重。也有人提到:棋品需要发自内心,不是做给人看的。其他国家棋手离席观战,包括大牌棋手在内,王子犯法,与庶民同。
你说:“ according to wang xinnan , it is not stated in the rules book ",你真的有问过王兴南吗?我尊重他,他可是我们裁判班的老师,他不可能不知道有这么一条规例的。

我在这里感激你我国象棋第一高手大费周章回复我这个小人物(... as u are not the person that has a say in deciding who gets to play for Singapore .......... ) 的贴。



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