请教:关于提出辞职后,公司要求赔款 - II
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作者:jenny (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:247) 发表:2009-04-05 09:57:14  楼主  关注此帖评分:
请教:关于提出辞职后,公司要求赔款 - II
事件经过在 这里 (http://v15.huasing.org/sForum/bbs.php?B=146_11130329)
已经离开那家公司三个月了。 在三月份收到从那家公司委托律师行发来的挂号信。
信中声明:我从一月9号开始已经不是公司的员工,公司保留追讨罚款和损失的权利。
前两天,收到的一封subordinate courts发来的

WRIT OF SUMMONS
IN THE SUBORDINATE COURTS OF THE REPUBLIC OF SINGAPORE

信内要求我:
"must satidfy the claim or cause an appearance to be entered for you using the electronic filing service and in default of your so doing the Plaintiff(s) may proceed with the action and Judgment may be entered against you without firther notice."
请教有经验的XDJM,这话的意思是: “必须赔偿或????, ???,原告会采取行动????,不另行通知”
请教我应该采取哪些行动了?
非常感谢您的回复。
Put your OWN COOL signature here!
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作者:longman (等级:4 - 马马虎虎,发帖:1156) 发表:2009-04-05 12:43:19  2楼 评分:
意思就是说:
你要么赔钱,要么填表上法庭,要么不出庭但随他们处置。
问题已经来了,不用担心,找个律师吧。
研究过你的案例,没有问题的。他们的条款是不合理的。
祝你好运。
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作者:jenny (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:247) 发表:2009-04-05 13:03:33  3楼
意思就是说:你要么赔钱,要么填表上法庭,要么不出庭但随他们处置。 问题已经来了,不用担心,找个律师吧。 研究过你的案例,没有问题的。他们的条款是不合理的。 祝你好运。
谢谢了,有哪个DX有好律师介绍?
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作者:jenny (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:247) 发表:2009-04-05 14:24:39  4楼
意思就是说:你要么赔钱,要么填表上法庭,要么不出庭但随他们处置。 问题已经来了,不用担心,找个律师吧。 研究过你的案例,没有问题的。他们的条款是不合理的。 祝你好运。
再次严重感谢LONGMAN。
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作者:不睡觉的鱼 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:909) 发表:2009-04-05 22:39:59  5楼
意思就是说:你要么赔钱,要么填表上法庭,要么不出庭但随他们处置。 问题已经来了,不用担心,找个律师吧。 研究过你的案例,没有问题的。他们的条款是不合理的。 祝你好运。
分析得有理!
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作者:monk (等级:5 - 略有小成,发帖:425) 发表:2009-04-06 00:25:57  6楼 评分:
hope it helps
为了帮Jenny 好好准备这case,查了一下新加坡的Employment Act,有以下发现:

(A)关于Notice Period

Employment Act 的原文是:

"Notice of termination of contract
10. —(1) Either party to a contract of service may at any time give to the other party notice of his intention to terminate the contract of service.

(2) The length of such notice shall be the same for both employer and employee and shall be determined by any provision made for the notice in the terms of the contract of service, or, in the absence of such provision, shall be in accordance with subsection (3).

(3) The notice to terminate the service of a person who is employed under a contract of service shall be not less than —

(a) one day’s notice if he has been so employed for less than 26 weeks;

(b) one week’s notice if he has been so employed for 26 weeks or more but less than 2 years;

(c) 2 week’s notice if he has been so employed for 2 years or more but less than 5 years; and

(d) 4 weeks’ notice if he has been so employed for 5 years or more.

(4) This section shall not be taken to prevent either party from waiving his right to notice on any occasion.

(5) Such notice shall be written and may be given at any time, and the day on which the notice is given shall be included in the period of the notice."

放到这个case的情况来看,可以有以下结论:

(a) 根据10(1),他的合同第一条是站不住的,双方在任何任何时候都可以提出解约。
(b) 根据10(2),Jenny的notice period 和他老板应该是一样的。如果他当时结束了试用期,则需要给1个月notice,否则就是1天就可以。
(c) 问题的关键在于, Jenny是否属于这一款条文所提到的"Employee"的范畴(他老板必然是Employer)。如果他是,根据上两条的推论,Jenny应该没有事情;如果不是,Jenny可能面临一定的麻烦。下个section将讨论employee的问题。

(B) 关于Employee

根据Employment Act 的原文:


""employee" means a person who has entered into or works under a contract of service with an employer and includes a workman, and any officer or employee of the Government included in a category, class or description of such officers or employees declared by the President to be employees for the purposes of this Act or any provision thereof, but does not include —

(a) any seaman;

(b) any domestic worker;

(c) subject to subsection (2), any person employed in a managerial or an executive position; and

(d) any person belonging to any other class of persons whom the Minister may, from time to time by notification in the Gazette, declare not to be employees for the purposes of this Act;"

简单来说,employee 的定义是有雇佣协议的人+ workman + 在政府部门工作且总统宣布为employee的人,且不包括(a) - (d)中的人。

因为Jenny是有雇佣协议且不在(a) – (d) 中,且我assume Jenny不是manager/executive (这两者定义见http://www.mom.gov.sg/publish/momportal/en/communities/workplace_standards/employment_standards/the_employment_act/Who_the_Employment_Act_Covers.html) 所以Jenny是employee,是被Employee Act保护的。Section A的问题解决了。(如果Jenny是manager/executive,问题就复杂些,还望Jenny 告知)。

但是既然Jenny的老板已经告上法庭,肯定也接受过律师的专业意见。律师应该不会犯一个简单的错误,让Jenny这么轻易的赢得官司。所以肯定还有别的方向那个律师可以argue。

(C) 关于 Notice of Termination

根据Jenny 上一个帖子:

“于是本月2号我递出辞呈。他们当即予以答复就是赔10个月的薪水,或者帮他们做完一个project.这两样都不可能做到,所以也就是摆明了不同意我走了。没办法,我只好收回辞呈。可是,5号我再到公司,他们已经关闭我的email账号,收走给我使用的电脑。于是我交出钥匙离开。”

这里的问题是,Jenny把辞呈收回来了,而根据Employment Act 的10(5),辞呈需要以书面形式。因此,Jenny的老板可以argue,他从来没有收到Jenny 的辞呈,而Jenny是breach of contract,因此需要赔偿。如果这个argument被法官接受,Jenny则需要赔偿一定金额。(具体金额后文分析)

首先,最好能证明Jenny给出过notice。此时Jenny负有举证责任。大约可以证明的方法如下:
(a) 如果notice是用email的形式发出,则可以要求法官给出庭令,看公司server的记录
(b) 如果notice是用打印出来,然后交给老板,则需要人证(有点难找,因为员工都不想得罪老板),或者进行指纹鉴定,看那个notice letter(如果Jenny保存下来了)上面是否有老板的指纹(这个要自己付钱,而且对方律师有办法破解,不推荐)
(c) 通过间接方式,称述公司在5号关闭了自己的email帐号,说明公司知道自己离职的问题(不够直接,需要与(a)和(b)配合适用)

这方面,具体情况具体分析,要看当时Jenny具体有什么干了什么了。

退一步,如果Jenny 无法证明自己递交过辞职信,也不意味着要赔很大一笔钱。根据Employment Act 的11(1)款:

“11. —(1) Either party to a contract of service may terminate the contract of service without notice or, if notice has already been given in accordance with section 10, without waiting for the expiry of that notice, by paying to the other party a sum equal to the amount of salary at the gross rate of pay which would have accrued to the employee during the period of the notice and in the case of a monthly-rated employee where the period of the notice is less than a month, the amount payable for any one day shall be the gross rate of pay for one day’s work.”

简单来说,雇佣协议双方可以在不给出notice,或等待notice period 结束的,通过支付与notice period时间相等的薪水来终止合同。

所以,就算Jenny无法证明自己有给出notice letter,根据上述条款,Jenny只需要支付他老板1天的薪水,就可以终止这项合同了,不需要支付剩余的8个月。

希望这些东西能帮助到Jenny。

Disclaimer一下,自己不是律师,只是在网上做一下research 得出的以上结论,希望专业人士能伸出援手。
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作者:KZWEI (等级:3 - 略知一二,发帖:264) 发表:2009-04-06 13:10:17  7楼
谢谢了,有哪个DX有好律师介绍?
听朋友说过LEE&LEE在新加坡很大也最有名,可否试试
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作者:jenny (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:247) 发表:2009-04-06 22:05:33  8楼
hope it helps为了帮Jenny 好好准备这case,查了一下新加坡的Employment Act,有以下发现: (A)关于Notice Period Employment Act 的原文是: "Notice of termination of contract 10. —(1) Either party to a contract of service may at any time give to the other party notice of his intention to terminate the contract of service. (2) The length of such notice shall be the same for both employer and employee and shall be determined by any provision made for the notice in the terms of the contract of service, or, in the absence of such provision, shall be in accordance with subsection (3). (3) The notice to terminate the service of a person who is employed under a contract of service shall be not less than — (a) one day’s notice if he has been so employed for less than 26 weeks; (b) one week’s notice if he has been so employed for 26 weeks or more but less than 2 years; (c) 2 week’s notice if he has been so employed for 2 years or more but less than 5 years; and (d) 4 weeks’ notice if he has been so employed (more...)
多谢!感激不尽
查了一下自己的角色, 就一个Senior Software Engineer,合同里描述的工作范围不涉及管理和决策,就是不属于:manager/executive.

现在既然对方开始了诉讼,就是说对方律师认为合同里关于赔偿的提款可以作为他们的arguement。
原文是:“You are required to serve the position for minimum one year,or to pay a penalty in lieu of the inadequate service period. Continuation of your position after 1 year is dependant, in part, on your sucessfully meeting the established performance expectations for this position”

多谢MONK提供的信息。
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作者:小钻风 (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:27) 发表:2009-04-07 01:01:19  9楼
有点儿悬
旁观者清,您和人家签了条约,然后有了“更好的机会”,就立马儿要走人,如果我是那老板也不干呐,软件硬件(project?)还得交货不是。老实说,您这是理亏在先的。条约没看好?好象也不是别人的错吧。这些东西,法官都会考虑的。

至于Employment Act和Employment Contract的关系,可以向人力部查一查。好象那主要针对蓝领工人,月薪一个月八百一千多的。可不可以晒晒那抠们儿老板给你的薪水,大家帮你出谋划策心里也有个谱。
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作者:jenny (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:247) 发表:2009-04-07 09:14:47  10楼
有点儿悬 旁观者清,您和人家签了条约,然后有了“更好的机会”,就立马儿要走人,如果我是那老板也不干呐,软件硬件(project?)还得交货不是。老实说,您这是理亏在先的。条约没看好?好象也不是别人的错吧。这些东西,法官都会考虑的。 至于Employment Act和Employment Contract的关系,可以向人力部查一查。好象那主要针对蓝领工人,月薪一个月八百一千多的。可不可以晒晒那抠们儿老板给你的薪水,大家帮你出谋划策心里也有个谱。
s$4500
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作者:不睡觉的鱼 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:909) 发表:2009-04-07 20:38:55  11楼
hope it helps为了帮Jenny 好好准备这case,查了一下新加坡的Employment Act,有以下发现: (A)关于Notice Period Employment Act 的原文是: "Notice of termination of contract 10. —(1) Either party to a contract of service may at any time give to the other party notice of his intention to terminate the contract of service. (2) The length of such notice shall be the same for both employer and employee and shall be determined by any provision made for the notice in the terms of the contract of service, or, in the absence of such provision, shall be in accordance with subsection (3). (3) The notice to terminate the service of a person who is employed under a contract of service shall be not less than — (a) one day’s notice if he has been so employed for less than 26 weeks; (b) one week’s notice if he has been so employed for 26 weeks or more but less than 2 years; (c) 2 week’s notice if he has been so employed for 2 years or more but less than 5 years; and (d) 4 weeks’ notice if he has been so employed (more...)
真是牛人啊!PFPF~~~
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作者:aspernet (等级:7 - 出类拔萃,发帖:5577) 发表:2009-04-08 11:47:56  12楼
多谢!感激不尽查了一下自己的角色, 就一个Senior Software Engineer,合同里描述的工作范围不涉及管理和决策,就是不属于:manager/executive. 现在既然对方开始了诉讼,就是说对方律师认为合同里关于赔偿的提款可以作为他们的arguement。 原文是:“You are required to serve the position for minimum one year,or to pay a penalty in lieu of the inadequate service period. Continuation of your position after 1 year is dependant, in part, on your sucessfully meeting the established performance expectations for this position” 多谢MONK提供的信息。
具体问题具体分析,貌似你的是contract work?
多跟律师咨询一下,不要没问过律师就想当然,不打没把握的仗,态度决定人生。
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作者:jenny (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:247) 发表:2009-04-09 11:44:07  13楼
具体问题具体分析,貌似你的是contract work?多跟律师咨询一下,不要没问过律师就想当然,不打没把握的仗,态度决定人生。
最少一年,过后看表现决定是否续签。是contract work吗?不懂。对我有利吗?谢!
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作者:小土 (等级:14 - 天人和一,发帖:17259) 发表:2009-04-09 11:53:19  14楼 评分:
i dont think you are covered under employment act

And your legilitive complain period is one month of termination of your contract.

so that means. now you have to play under their rule. forget about the employment act. but just the "contract" you signed on with them. and all evidences during ur resignation period.

i assume you have a written resignation letter, right? it has date and all those things. if they did not sign as receive notice, which means you can simply claim they fired you instead of you resigned.

Lastly try to think from their side... what do they have to prove you are guilty or mis-conducted.

try to check you resignation process against your contract with the firm. if everythihng make sense but lack of evidences. dont worry. that means they dont have neither. so just be cool. ignore what they are doing now. they are just bluffing.




http://www.mom.gov.sg/publish/momportal/en/communities/workplace_standards/employment_standards/the_employment_act/Who_the_Employment_Act_Covers.html


"senior software engineer" : Managers and executives are employees with executive or supervisory functions. These functions include the authority to influence or make decision on issues such as recruitment, discipline, termination of employment, assessment of performance and reward, or involvement in the formulation of strategies and policies of the enterprise, or the management and running of the business.

They also include professionals with tertiary education and specialised knowledge/skills and whose employment terms are comparable to those of managers and executives. Professionals such as lawyers, accountants, dentists and doctors whose nature and terms of employment are comparable to executives would generally be deemed as such, and hence they would not be covered under the Act
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作者:jenny (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:247) 发表:2009-04-09 11:55:07  15楼
引以为戒呀!
系统提示:该帖正文已被删除
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作者:小土 (等级:14 - 天人和一,发帖:17259) 发表:2009-04-09 12:01:03  16楼
引以为戒呀!系统提示:该帖正文已被删除
can't belive you really get urself a lawyer?
.......

pouring money into the sea
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作者:aspernet (等级:7 - 出类拔萃,发帖:5577) 发表:2009-04-09 12:04:40  17楼
最少一年,过后看表现决定是否续签。是contract work吗?不懂。对我有利吗?谢!
你看你的appointment letter里有没有写是perm
上次偶记得sony为了减少headcount, 说只招contract, 虽然contract和perm待遇一样,同样拿花红, 但是不算在headcount内。
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作者:- 发表:2009-04-09 12:29:28  18楼
引以为戒呀!系统提示:该帖正文已被删除
系统提示:该帖标题已被删除
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作者:- 发表:2009-04-09 14:45:42  19楼
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作者:darkart (等级:3 - 略知一二,发帖:654) 发表:2009-04-12 23:38:07  20楼
can't belive you really get urself a lawyer?....... pouring money into the sea
why not? 10 month salary = 45k >> lawyer fee
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